White Templars, Disciples of Caliban, Blood Angels, & Tau vs Renegade (Vanilla) Marines
Purge the Alien, Vanguard, 3000 points -- November 20, 2012 - Report of partial battle.
This was played at an open gaming night at Heroic Adventures that turned out to be a league night. Supposed to run six to ten, but when I got there at six, only one table was set up (and was use by some guys who had clearly been at it a while). The 40K league was sitting around talking about what it was going to do while one guy had his stuff all spread out on a table while he counted up the points he brought. He did this "in his head" by looking at his squads. Finally, we worked out who was going to play who and it ended up that all the noobs like me got assigned to one table where one guy and I were against the noob who had mentally added up his force by looking at his squads visually. In any case, we finally got rolling around 7:30.
I had White Templars with allied Disciples of Caliban. My partner was Blood Angels with allied Tau. I can only really describe my list with accuracy. I fielded:
* Terminator Librarian with storm shield and force staff
* 5 Terminators with a chainfist and an assault cannon
* 10 Tacticals with ML and flamer
* 10 Tactical with plasmagun and multi-melta
* 7 Assault Marines with a flamer and the Sgt. with a thunder hammer
* Land Speeder Typhoon w/ multi-melta
* Dreadnought
* Thunderfire Cannon
* Allied Company Master w/ combi-melta and power axe
* Allied 10 Tacticals with melta and multi-melta
We also had a delipidated Bastion in our deployment zone.
Our opponent fielded an almost totally unpainted, all-infantry force. I can't give specifics, but he had at least 2 tacticals with plasma cannons, an all ML dev. squad, three assault squads, and a unit of Sternguard. He deployed first all along his line with the Sternguard front and center and the devs. in his back corner (our left). We deployed we deployed in a refused flank with the Blood Angels set to charge forward at his flank while I held the line. I put the ML tacticals atop the Bastion and improved the cover of the ruins the tau would be occupying. My other WT tacticals deployed at the base of the tower to keep the door from being covered. The speeder, the assault marines, and the dread hid behind the tower while the T-fire deployed on my back edge. The Disciples deployed the HQ and the tacticals immediately behind the Blood Angels. Of course we got night for the first turn.
In the first turn, the enemy blew up the Death Company's razorback and dropped some plasma cannon shots into the exposed occupants and our compressed forces. He shot up my ground level Templar tactical squad. We responded by advancing our assault units, occupying the ruins on our right with tau, and firing them into the flank of his forces killing a few. I advanced my Disciples tactical to try to screen the Blood Angels but kept my assault marines for counter assault against the forces coming around on our left. I focused my fire on the Sternguard with the T-fire killing several and then maybe one more fell to a Missile. At the end of Turn 1, it was 2-0 against us.
In turn two, he orbitally bombarded the bastion with Pedro Cantor, killing my entire squad atop it and penetrated my speeder, forcing it to only be able to snap shot this turn. He also destroyed the death company and the tau HQ. At this point it was 5-0 against us.
We responded by moving the Blood Angels into assault range, advancing the Disciples, bringing the dread forward a bit, and shifting the Speeder to the other side of the bastion ruins behind the dread. I then realized I still needed to roll for my reserves, but our opponent decided it was too late (irritating me). In my shooting, my bolters, multi-meltas, typhoon missiles, and pretty much everything BUT the T-fire shot at the Sternguard, killing all but one. I dropped T-fire rounds on some tacticals killing several, but no units. (I didn't want to try to drop the T-fire on the Sternguard because the Blood Angels were in easy scatter distance.) In our assault, one Blood Angels unit assaulted a tactical squad killing it and then consolidating out of the enemy deployment zone. The other Blood Angel assault squad assaulted the remaining Sternguard primarily and the remaining tactical (from the unit I had shelled) secondarily, succeeding in reaching the primary target, but not the secondary target. The Sternguard sgt. challenged and lived. Our opponent remembered he needed to Overwatch after the Blood angels had moved their first charge move. He wanted to do it then, but I reminded him that he had already set the precedent with my reserves that once the moment for something is past, it is too late. He shot overwatch at the second Blood Angel charge and killed no one. At this point the score was 5-1 and the game ended because it was after 9:15, and we would not get another full round in before the store closed.
This was a very frustrating game for me. I'm not certain the opposing noobs mental count of his troop points was accurate. Further, he got to select which units in his available forces would make up his army AFTER he knew he was facing two marines armies which were set to try to be generalists. It may or may not be coincidence that his army ended up being quite good against marines, carrying as it did several plasma cannons, missile launchers, and being all infantry. We could not, in the age old term, repel firepower of that magnitude (or that amount of firepower). Also, at several times he asserted the rules to be one way and insisted that they should be such unless we proved to him that they were otherwise. For example, he wanted to shoot the bastion and have the resulting wounds to its occupiers affect the guys on the battlements. There were also several other cases, but I forget all of the specifics.
The only other truly questionable thing he did that I recall involved his Sternguard, and by that point, I didn't call him on it because I was too irritated with the game. He had 5 with combi-plasma and 5 with combi-melta guns, which, last time I checked, meant they could not fire the special Sternguard ammunition available to bolters. Yet, he fired special Sternguard ammunition in turn two at, I believe, the Death company or the tau HQ. He also insisted that if the marines fired their rapid fire weapons at anything (even if it was only single shot mode), they could not assault anything. I don't know if that is correct or not - the only rule I found in a quick review says they have to assault what they shoot at.
My best thing was once more the Thunderfire Cannon. My least useful was the Dreadnought. Seems like a theme. Actually, my least useful was my terminators because they never got out of reserve, but I'm not counting that. I think we should have been more aggressive (deploying right on the line of our zone), and I should have advanced also... giving the enemy more targets might have screened the Death Company. I should have remembered orbital bombardment and not invested the bastion. I should have looked at the clock and not put ANYTHING in reserve. We ran into a bit of a problem that when I shot, I increased the range for the Angels to have to cover in their assault. That was poor synergy though I'm not sure if that means I should have shot at the other end of his army or what.
In post battle discussion, our opponent stated that had we deployed on our line, he would have killed us all with rapid fire from his bolters (and he would have had a fair amount of it). I think he is wrong, we'd have gotten our 3+ and it is not that easy to kill us with bolters. Plus, if he has shot the tacticals, the elite assault units would have survived better. If he ignored the tacticals, we would have been able to rapid fire him. So we should have run our assault guys up the right edge screened by advancing tacticals to their left.
Our opponent also asserted that he would have destroyed the consolidated assault unit next turn and he might have. Not sure there is an answer to that problem - being too effective in the assault lets you get shot the next turn and I don't think you can assault in your consolidation move. The best consolidation might have been to try to get "behind" the melee that had continued, but that probably only would have been cover, not blocking LoS so no real gain there. Not sure the answer there. Next game is Saturday so hope to have another report then.
EDIT: Something else that is in my mind tactically with this marine horde army.... Obviously we could not deal with him tacticals to tacticals because he outnumbered us by something like 2 or 3 to 1. More specifically, we had three assault marines on our side (not counting the Death Company) and he had three on his side. He had 1 squad of devistators and on squad of Sternguard. We had neither. Everything else he had was tactical squads in full ten marine strength. He had probably six of them (I'm guessing so call it +/- 1) while we had the three of them I brought plus a team of Fire Caste Warriors in a Devilfish. What we had that he didn't (and to balance against his devs and Sternguard) was a few vehicles and special troops (Death Company, the aforesaid devilfish, a razorback, my dreadnought, my Land Speeder Typhoon, my thunderfire, and my terminators). To win, we needed to get production out of them and that was where we failed. The razorback died first shot of turn 1 and the Death Company never got to close combat. The tau HQ likewise. My dread got only one shot off and my land speeder got 5. My terminators never got on the field. for me, ONLY the T-fire pulled its own weight. In my allies army, only the tau and their devilfish pulled their own weight. Our opponent simply got more production out of his units and therefore won the first two rounds and the game.
Secondly, in shortened games, the shooty armies should do better because it takes close range armies a turn or two to get into position.
This was played at an open gaming night at Heroic Adventures that turned out to be a league night. Supposed to run six to ten, but when I got there at six, only one table was set up (and was use by some guys who had clearly been at it a while). The 40K league was sitting around talking about what it was going to do while one guy had his stuff all spread out on a table while he counted up the points he brought. He did this "in his head" by looking at his squads. Finally, we worked out who was going to play who and it ended up that all the noobs like me got assigned to one table where one guy and I were against the noob who had mentally added up his force by looking at his squads visually. In any case, we finally got rolling around 7:30.
I had White Templars with allied Disciples of Caliban. My partner was Blood Angels with allied Tau. I can only really describe my list with accuracy. I fielded:
* Terminator Librarian with storm shield and force staff
* 5 Terminators with a chainfist and an assault cannon
* 10 Tacticals with ML and flamer
* 10 Tactical with plasmagun and multi-melta
* 7 Assault Marines with a flamer and the Sgt. with a thunder hammer
* Land Speeder Typhoon w/ multi-melta
* Dreadnought
* Thunderfire Cannon
* Allied Company Master w/ combi-melta and power axe
* Allied 10 Tacticals with melta and multi-melta
We also had a delipidated Bastion in our deployment zone.
Our opponent fielded an almost totally unpainted, all-infantry force. I can't give specifics, but he had at least 2 tacticals with plasma cannons, an all ML dev. squad, three assault squads, and a unit of Sternguard. He deployed first all along his line with the Sternguard front and center and the devs. in his back corner (our left). We deployed we deployed in a refused flank with the Blood Angels set to charge forward at his flank while I held the line. I put the ML tacticals atop the Bastion and improved the cover of the ruins the tau would be occupying. My other WT tacticals deployed at the base of the tower to keep the door from being covered. The speeder, the assault marines, and the dread hid behind the tower while the T-fire deployed on my back edge. The Disciples deployed the HQ and the tacticals immediately behind the Blood Angels. Of course we got night for the first turn.
In the first turn, the enemy blew up the Death Company's razorback and dropped some plasma cannon shots into the exposed occupants and our compressed forces. He shot up my ground level Templar tactical squad. We responded by advancing our assault units, occupying the ruins on our right with tau, and firing them into the flank of his forces killing a few. I advanced my Disciples tactical to try to screen the Blood Angels but kept my assault marines for counter assault against the forces coming around on our left. I focused my fire on the Sternguard with the T-fire killing several and then maybe one more fell to a Missile. At the end of Turn 1, it was 2-0 against us.
In turn two, he orbitally bombarded the bastion with Pedro Cantor, killing my entire squad atop it and penetrated my speeder, forcing it to only be able to snap shot this turn. He also destroyed the death company and the tau HQ. At this point it was 5-0 against us.
We responded by moving the Blood Angels into assault range, advancing the Disciples, bringing the dread forward a bit, and shifting the Speeder to the other side of the bastion ruins behind the dread. I then realized I still needed to roll for my reserves, but our opponent decided it was too late (irritating me). In my shooting, my bolters, multi-meltas, typhoon missiles, and pretty much everything BUT the T-fire shot at the Sternguard, killing all but one. I dropped T-fire rounds on some tacticals killing several, but no units. (I didn't want to try to drop the T-fire on the Sternguard because the Blood Angels were in easy scatter distance.) In our assault, one Blood Angels unit assaulted a tactical squad killing it and then consolidating out of the enemy deployment zone. The other Blood Angel assault squad assaulted the remaining Sternguard primarily and the remaining tactical (from the unit I had shelled) secondarily, succeeding in reaching the primary target, but not the secondary target. The Sternguard sgt. challenged and lived. Our opponent remembered he needed to Overwatch after the Blood angels had moved their first charge move. He wanted to do it then, but I reminded him that he had already set the precedent with my reserves that once the moment for something is past, it is too late. He shot overwatch at the second Blood Angel charge and killed no one. At this point the score was 5-1 and the game ended because it was after 9:15, and we would not get another full round in before the store closed.
This was a very frustrating game for me. I'm not certain the opposing noobs mental count of his troop points was accurate. Further, he got to select which units in his available forces would make up his army AFTER he knew he was facing two marines armies which were set to try to be generalists. It may or may not be coincidence that his army ended up being quite good against marines, carrying as it did several plasma cannons, missile launchers, and being all infantry. We could not, in the age old term, repel firepower of that magnitude (or that amount of firepower). Also, at several times he asserted the rules to be one way and insisted that they should be such unless we proved to him that they were otherwise. For example, he wanted to shoot the bastion and have the resulting wounds to its occupiers affect the guys on the battlements. There were also several other cases, but I forget all of the specifics.
The only other truly questionable thing he did that I recall involved his Sternguard, and by that point, I didn't call him on it because I was too irritated with the game. He had 5 with combi-plasma and 5 with combi-melta guns, which, last time I checked, meant they could not fire the special Sternguard ammunition available to bolters. Yet, he fired special Sternguard ammunition in turn two at, I believe, the Death company or the tau HQ. He also insisted that if the marines fired their rapid fire weapons at anything (even if it was only single shot mode), they could not assault anything. I don't know if that is correct or not - the only rule I found in a quick review says they have to assault what they shoot at.
My best thing was once more the Thunderfire Cannon. My least useful was the Dreadnought. Seems like a theme. Actually, my least useful was my terminators because they never got out of reserve, but I'm not counting that. I think we should have been more aggressive (deploying right on the line of our zone), and I should have advanced also... giving the enemy more targets might have screened the Death Company. I should have remembered orbital bombardment and not invested the bastion. I should have looked at the clock and not put ANYTHING in reserve. We ran into a bit of a problem that when I shot, I increased the range for the Angels to have to cover in their assault. That was poor synergy though I'm not sure if that means I should have shot at the other end of his army or what.
In post battle discussion, our opponent stated that had we deployed on our line, he would have killed us all with rapid fire from his bolters (and he would have had a fair amount of it). I think he is wrong, we'd have gotten our 3+ and it is not that easy to kill us with bolters. Plus, if he has shot the tacticals, the elite assault units would have survived better. If he ignored the tacticals, we would have been able to rapid fire him. So we should have run our assault guys up the right edge screened by advancing tacticals to their left.
Our opponent also asserted that he would have destroyed the consolidated assault unit next turn and he might have. Not sure there is an answer to that problem - being too effective in the assault lets you get shot the next turn and I don't think you can assault in your consolidation move. The best consolidation might have been to try to get "behind" the melee that had continued, but that probably only would have been cover, not blocking LoS so no real gain there. Not sure the answer there. Next game is Saturday so hope to have another report then.
EDIT: Something else that is in my mind tactically with this marine horde army.... Obviously we could not deal with him tacticals to tacticals because he outnumbered us by something like 2 or 3 to 1. More specifically, we had three assault marines on our side (not counting the Death Company) and he had three on his side. He had 1 squad of devistators and on squad of Sternguard. We had neither. Everything else he had was tactical squads in full ten marine strength. He had probably six of them (I'm guessing so call it +/- 1) while we had the three of them I brought plus a team of Fire Caste Warriors in a Devilfish. What we had that he didn't (and to balance against his devs and Sternguard) was a few vehicles and special troops (Death Company, the aforesaid devilfish, a razorback, my dreadnought, my Land Speeder Typhoon, my thunderfire, and my terminators). To win, we needed to get production out of them and that was where we failed. The razorback died first shot of turn 1 and the Death Company never got to close combat. The tau HQ likewise. My dread got only one shot off and my land speeder got 5. My terminators never got on the field. for me, ONLY the T-fire pulled its own weight. In my allies army, only the tau and their devilfish pulled their own weight. Our opponent simply got more production out of his units and therefore won the first two rounds and the game.
Secondly, in shortened games, the shooty armies should do better because it takes close range armies a turn or two to get into position.
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