Thoughts?
It’s been a bit of no posting anywhere and I probably don’t have the time to post now. Oh well.
My thoughts on fluff are progressing, faster than my painting. I’ve got closing on five models painted and most of an initial fluff IA done. Of course, I’m second guessing myself on what I want to do and where I want to go. I’ve considered gene-seed from every loyal chapter except the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. I liked Scars for their cavalry like qualities, Salamanders for their interactions, Ultras because they are supposed to be the most numerous, and Imperial Fists because so many of the knightly chapters came from them (Black Templars, Iron Knights, etc.).
Then one guy made a suggestion that I look at the Dark Angels and pointed out that after the first few foundings, a Dark Angels successor would not necessarily be all about chasing the fallen. They would probably be a very Codex chapter. So I looked at the Dark Angels.
Now a friend of mine, back in Washington, had a Dark Angel’s army. In that environment we had an Ork player, a Chaos Marine player, a Black Templar, and two Dark Angels players. I tended to think of the Dark Angels as common. I also knew I wanted to be a Codex army and I thought of the DA as a special army.
So anyway, I looked at the DA and realized they were also constructed along knightly lines, more so IMO than the Imperial Fists. Suddenly, it made much more sense for a Dark Angel successor to call itself White Templar. Moreso because I already was going to use the term Grand Master and knee heraldry. So I’m probably going in that direction but not using the Codex: Dark Angel.
And that brings me to my other problems. Dark angels do their markings a bit different from Codex. They don’t seem to use company color directly; they use company emblems on the knee. How to Paint Space Marines shows the White Templars with a tactical arrow, white pauldron trim, and no knee badges. This could be read that shoulder trim is not used since no marine with white trim would have a tactical arrow on it. However, the White Scars show no trim color in their line drawing, but do show it painted on a model. Thus, you could also assume that the line drawings are drawn devoid of any company markings which opens the door for either way of doing things.
So I can keep my red shoulder trim if I want. I have to say though that in painting, the red does not do a great job of contrasting with the black. I could make the red shoulder trim a mark of a sergeant, but then I’m at a loss as to how to denote a veteran sergeant. If I could give vet sergeants red helmets, but that fits neither the Dark Angels or a Codex scheme. Worse, many sergeant models aren’t wearing helmets.
It also occurred to me that I could do all the marking on one pauldron as follows: Black base with the squad type in white. On the squad type, you paint the squad number in the company color. (This has problems with the First Company, but they can have their squad number in black since the veteran squad type emblem would already tell you they were First Company.) We then have the boarder trim to denote rank. I would use white for troopers (veteran or otherwise), red for sergeants, copper for veteran sergeants, silver for captains, and gold for the Grand Master. Probably trim Chaplains, Librarians, and Techmarines in white. However, as I said, this fits neither Chapter’s scheme and I would be relying on the bit that says chapters frequently change up their markings to confuse the enemy.
At this point, I’d have to repaint 4 sets of shoulder trims that are red to being white. That’s never easy. But better 4 than 14 which is why painting stopped until I figure this out.
I also need to figure out my themes in terms of army composition. Right now, the armies look relatively identical. Each has 2-3 tacs, 1 scout, 1 devistator, 2 dreads, 2 speeders. The Emerald Lancers have tanks though, a Land Raider, an Annilator, 2 Razorbacks, a Whirlwind, and a Vindicator. The Templars have no tanks.
I like the idea of the Templars using flamers from a burn the heretic point of view, and since my Templar tac squads are from Black Reach, I have three flamer-missile launcher squads. However, the Emerald Lancers are supposed to be my Sallie style army, not the white Templars. Honestly though, since they are both Codex armies, I’m not sure how much real difference there is. I could use the Dark Angel Codex for the Templars, but I’m loath to do so, and not just because How to Paint Space Marines says they are a Codex chapter. I could move my flamers to the Emerald Storm and move the meltas to the Templars. Not sure that helps. I also don’t like flamers. They don’t kill enough guys and you get assaulted next turn. They are good on assaulting units who burn then charge, but, of course, the Black Reach dudes have a tactical arrow CARVED on their shoulders. In theory the Sallie style is meltas, flamers, and as of this last codex, lascannons. That means they are heavy foot. Should my Templars be light foot? Load up on speeders and bikes? Should I make them assaulty since my Sallies aren’t. I wanted to do drop pods, but I’m not sure drop pod assault is a good plan since you can’t assault from landing. Drop pod shooty seems like a better bet. So then I’d have a shooty Tau army, a shooty Sisters army, a shooty Dark Eldar Army, a shooty Sallie army, and a shooty Templar army. Do I really want to go this way?
I could also make the Templars assault based and load up on Vanguard. But if I wanted to do that kind of thing, why wouldn’t I do Blood angels?
Thoughts?
My thoughts on fluff are progressing, faster than my painting. I’ve got closing on five models painted and most of an initial fluff IA done. Of course, I’m second guessing myself on what I want to do and where I want to go. I’ve considered gene-seed from every loyal chapter except the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. I liked Scars for their cavalry like qualities, Salamanders for their interactions, Ultras because they are supposed to be the most numerous, and Imperial Fists because so many of the knightly chapters came from them (Black Templars, Iron Knights, etc.).
Then one guy made a suggestion that I look at the Dark Angels and pointed out that after the first few foundings, a Dark Angels successor would not necessarily be all about chasing the fallen. They would probably be a very Codex chapter. So I looked at the Dark Angels.
Now a friend of mine, back in Washington, had a Dark Angel’s army. In that environment we had an Ork player, a Chaos Marine player, a Black Templar, and two Dark Angels players. I tended to think of the Dark Angels as common. I also knew I wanted to be a Codex army and I thought of the DA as a special army.
So anyway, I looked at the DA and realized they were also constructed along knightly lines, more so IMO than the Imperial Fists. Suddenly, it made much more sense for a Dark Angel successor to call itself White Templar. Moreso because I already was going to use the term Grand Master and knee heraldry. So I’m probably going in that direction but not using the Codex: Dark Angel.
And that brings me to my other problems. Dark angels do their markings a bit different from Codex. They don’t seem to use company color directly; they use company emblems on the knee. How to Paint Space Marines shows the White Templars with a tactical arrow, white pauldron trim, and no knee badges. This could be read that shoulder trim is not used since no marine with white trim would have a tactical arrow on it. However, the White Scars show no trim color in their line drawing, but do show it painted on a model. Thus, you could also assume that the line drawings are drawn devoid of any company markings which opens the door for either way of doing things.
So I can keep my red shoulder trim if I want. I have to say though that in painting, the red does not do a great job of contrasting with the black. I could make the red shoulder trim a mark of a sergeant, but then I’m at a loss as to how to denote a veteran sergeant. If I could give vet sergeants red helmets, but that fits neither the Dark Angels or a Codex scheme. Worse, many sergeant models aren’t wearing helmets.
It also occurred to me that I could do all the marking on one pauldron as follows: Black base with the squad type in white. On the squad type, you paint the squad number in the company color. (This has problems with the First Company, but they can have their squad number in black since the veteran squad type emblem would already tell you they were First Company.) We then have the boarder trim to denote rank. I would use white for troopers (veteran or otherwise), red for sergeants, copper for veteran sergeants, silver for captains, and gold for the Grand Master. Probably trim Chaplains, Librarians, and Techmarines in white. However, as I said, this fits neither Chapter’s scheme and I would be relying on the bit that says chapters frequently change up their markings to confuse the enemy.
At this point, I’d have to repaint 4 sets of shoulder trims that are red to being white. That’s never easy. But better 4 than 14 which is why painting stopped until I figure this out.
I also need to figure out my themes in terms of army composition. Right now, the armies look relatively identical. Each has 2-3 tacs, 1 scout, 1 devistator, 2 dreads, 2 speeders. The Emerald Lancers have tanks though, a Land Raider, an Annilator, 2 Razorbacks, a Whirlwind, and a Vindicator. The Templars have no tanks.
I like the idea of the Templars using flamers from a burn the heretic point of view, and since my Templar tac squads are from Black Reach, I have three flamer-missile launcher squads. However, the Emerald Lancers are supposed to be my Sallie style army, not the white Templars. Honestly though, since they are both Codex armies, I’m not sure how much real difference there is. I could use the Dark Angel Codex for the Templars, but I’m loath to do so, and not just because How to Paint Space Marines says they are a Codex chapter. I could move my flamers to the Emerald Storm and move the meltas to the Templars. Not sure that helps. I also don’t like flamers. They don’t kill enough guys and you get assaulted next turn. They are good on assaulting units who burn then charge, but, of course, the Black Reach dudes have a tactical arrow CARVED on their shoulders. In theory the Sallie style is meltas, flamers, and as of this last codex, lascannons. That means they are heavy foot. Should my Templars be light foot? Load up on speeders and bikes? Should I make them assaulty since my Sallies aren’t. I wanted to do drop pods, but I’m not sure drop pod assault is a good plan since you can’t assault from landing. Drop pod shooty seems like a better bet. So then I’d have a shooty Tau army, a shooty Sisters army, a shooty Dark Eldar Army, a shooty Sallie army, and a shooty Templar army. Do I really want to go this way?
I could also make the Templars assault based and load up on Vanguard. But if I wanted to do that kind of thing, why wouldn’t I do Blood angels?
Thoughts?
Comments
Squad type and number as you mentioned (don't color-scheme them for company.) Find a spot on the marine for a company badge. If you don't like the idea of the kneepad, how about a small company symbol in the corner of a pauldron, or on a Shin-guard?
As far as denoting veterans vs. normal marines, an idea I'd been toying with is using those small terminator shields that usually go up on the shoulder to denote a veteran (even in Power Armor). You can get a bunch of those from some bitz order websites for real cheap. You can even devise a symbol or some other (maybe personal?) heraldry to put on those.
For the composition of the army, I'm not sure how to help you too much, as what is really important is that it is something you like. As for the Drop Pod assault issue ... I think I remember reading some rule in the new SM codex about Vanguard marines being able to assault on the deep strike. I'll have to double-check when I'm at home...